Why parts websites list two versions of the Duratec 25 in Mk3 Saloon V6's (one with 24v and one without)? - V6 'Duratec' Petrol Engines (Mondeo Mk3) - TalkFord.com

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Why parts websites list two versions of the Duratec 25 in Mk3 Saloon V6's (one with 24v and one without)?


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#1 ancienttyres

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 04:51 PM

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For example, ebay. Although it's not just them, I've seen it on a few other websites that let you pick a model of car to search for compatible parts too, presumably they get their info from a particular database and that database seems to think there's two versions of the Duratec 25 that were used in Saloon mk3's one labeled as a 24 valve and the other... not.

 

My mondeo is a 2001 mk3 saloon. It's a 2.5l v6 and has 24 valves, just like all the other Duratec 25's in that range would. Because the Duratec 25 is a 24 valve engine or so I've always assumed.

 

And yet...

 

wtf.png

 

Only the mk3 saloon has two engines listed, from the years 2000 right up to when it was replaced with the mk4 in 2007. Any others like hatchbacks only list one variant of the 2.5l v6 "24v".

 

It's a small insignificant issue that I'm not expecting anyone to be able to explain to me beyond what I already think (that it's an error in whatever database these websites use), but even so, it's still an issue that's quietly been pissing me off for years. First world problems and all that.


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#2 raynkar

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 06:20 PM

Not sure about the ‘Duratec 25’, but maybe the issue is that there were three different Duratec V6 engines fitted in the mk3.


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#3 raynkar

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 06:23 PM

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Catcar and Zap aren’t always good for V6 parts, and especially so for 3.0 litre V6 parts, but are you aware of this site.

 

Link to Catcar:

http://www.catcar.in...jAwMC0yMDA3In0=


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#4 ancienttyres

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 08:27 PM

I am aware of catcar, yes. Handy tool, even if it is a bit difficult to find things.



#5 alpid

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 02:09 PM

I can't remember all the details but the earlier V6 was a slightly higher output albeit by only a few cc's and also had the pitn EGR system. Later V6 - lower output, no EGR. Hence two versions of the same engine. We have all this info gathered over the years at www.ukcougar.club

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#6 ST56

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:53 PM

Hi

 

An engine from Ford to fit an Auto gearbox may be slightly different to one for a 5 or 6 speed manual.

Even though same block and other components.

 

Peter


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#7 ancienttyres

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Posted 08 July 2020 - 12:49 PM

I think I'll just chalk this one down to it being an obvious error somewhere and will probably never get corrected. If it was the EGR version that wouldn't explain why they have it listed for every model year, since even if the very early mk3 2.5l v6's saloons had EGR valves they certainly didn't after the facelift (2003) so in that case it shouldn't be showing up after 2003 regardless, but it does.

 

Not sure about gearboxes, but I don't think that's it purely on the basis that other engines listed don't have different versions. The ST220 or the 3.0l V6 for example, are all listed on their own for the models years they were available an dnot just for the saloons either. Surely the 2.5l V6 Saloon wouldn't have been the only one to need to be modified into two versions for an auto or manual gearbox?

 

Anyway, like I say I'll just consider it an error unless someone can provide unequivocal proof of there being two different versions of the 2.5l V6 only being sold in Saloons. :}



#8 cantfixwontfix

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Posted 14 November 2020 - 03:11 PM

This is an odd one, but I think you're right in thinking it's an error, I doubt only the Saloon version of the Mondeo would have two engines that were 2.5l. I did some research anyway and I can't really find any actual evidence there were two versions of the same engine in the MKIII. But, notably they aren't technically the same engine if you go by capacity. The two "variants" (as listed on eBay for example) are distinct as the one that marks itself out as the 24V "variant" is a 2495cc engine, the same for all 2.5l V6 engines used in not just the Saloon but Hatchback and Estate MKIII's too, and the non 24V version is listed as 2451cc. That's why it's odd, because I can't find any evidence anywhere of a 2451cc version of the Duratec ever existing.

 

History time! The Duratec 2.5l being used in as far back as the first generation, pre facelift (i.e. MKI) Mondeo was a 2544cc engine, introduced in 1994 on Ghia, Ghia X and SI trims of the MKI - they were badged as 24V originally since Ford didn't start using the V6 badge until I believe the MKII. With the MKII, they carried the engine over, but also stuck it in the new ST24 as well as the Ghia/Ghia X/SI trims, and later also used it in the ST200. The engine used was still 2544cc at this point.

 

When Ford released the MKIII in October 2000, the Duratec 2.5l was carried over but made to be slightly smaller capacity at 2495cc, which I believe is what Alpid above was talking about. Thing is he makes it sound like there were two versions of the Duratec 2.5l in the MKIII but this was not the case; he's referencing the fact the MKII 2.5l v6 was 2544cc where as when it got transplanted into the MKIII they removed the EGR valve and among other minor alterations also made the capacity of the engine slightly smaller at 2495cc.

 

So, in closing where this 2451cc engine has come from, I don't know. No one probably does except the muppet who first put it into the database all these websites use. There are only two possible explanations; most likely it is an error as you thought that was made at some point in the last 20 years which has resulted in a national database of car makes and models showing an extra engine for the MKIII Mondeo Saloon that doesn't exist. Or, for some reason Ford experimented with a 2451cc engine in the very earliest MKIII 2.5l v6 Saloons, or maybe even with a prototype that was registered as road legal but never went into production which wound up getting listed on the database.

 

That last one is about as likely as the second coming happening if you ask me. It's an error, I'm pretty damn sure.



#9 raynkar

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Posted 14 November 2020 - 05:10 PM

I haven’t really paid much attention to 2.5 engines, but what vehicles were they fitted in?

 

I only ask the 3.0 Duratec was fitted in a few vehicles. This is relevant for me as it was fitted to the Maverick, and parts can still be sometimes bought under the Maverick name even though the same part with a Mondeo Mk3 finis is no longer stocked.

 

Could an alternative engine also have been an offering for a foreign spec Mondeo or Metrostar?

 

There were many options on the Mk3 Mondeo and Metrostar that were never fitted to European  cars.


Edited by raynkar, 14 November 2020 - 05:17 PM.

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#10 cantfixwontfix

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Posted 14 November 2020 - 11:25 PM

Could be I suppose, the 2.5l has been a few different cars. The Ford Contour in America (basically the US Mondeo), and the Mercury Cougar had it as did some other car makes, Lincoln I think had a model that used it I think. Over here too it got used in not just the Mondeo but the Ford Cougar (Euro version of the Mercury Cougar). And of course there were other car makers who used their own versions of the engine, Mazda and Jaguar being notable. As for the 3.0l, that too got used in various different cars, it was even stuck in a Noble M400 (albeit tuned and modified).

 

I never actually looked at one of these database searches, but having a quick glance at eBay, I've found that actually this 2451cc engine shows up under all Mondeo years and all variants of the Mondeo, not just the Saloon the OP mentioned. On Eurocarparts it doesn't list it at all (their search is a lot lighter than ebay's). Makes me believe even more this has just been an error somewhere. Even if the 2451cc exists, again I can't find any info on it so if it was for a Mondeo in a different market then it's worth saying that if you're in the UK at least and you come across a V6 24v and just a V6 when doing these searches: select the v6 24v as that's the 2495cc engine and the one you'll have in your Mondeo!






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