Steering Bolt Failure: Official Response from DVLA - Page 19 - Drivetrain (Mk5 Mondeo) - TalkFord.com

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Steering Bolt Failure: Official Response from DVLA

tsb recall corrosion rack failure

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#181 ST56

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 08:32 PM

Hi

 

Have not seen or heard of this problem on other Ford models similar age Focus, Kuga and possibly other models have the electric steering racks.

 

Peter


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Previously Mondeo MK3 2.2 ST Tdci. (ST56MON).

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Previously Escort XR3i, Capri, Sierra, Escorts RS2000, RS1600, Mexico & 1300GT.
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#182 TreborB

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 08:39 PM

I have no knowledge of what racks even look like on the above models.

Forgot to add in earlier post when saying BMW had recall in USA and a few Minis have suffered
Tesla also have recall in USA

BMW 320i M Sport 2019 Mineral Grey, Steptronic 8 speed ZF Auto

( Sorry but NO 2.3 Ecoboost 8 Speed Auto Mondeo's to be found!)

 

Focus 2018 Mk3.5, 1 Litre Ecoboost 140ps ST Line, SYNC3 Sat Nav, Parking Sensors, Colour Magnetic - Gifted to the Wife! Then Sold Aug 2019

 

Mondeo Mk5 Titanium 2L Ecoboost 240ps, X Pack, Body Kit, Rear Spoiler, 19" Alloys, LED Headlamps, Sony 12 Spkr Audio, Park Assist, Winter Pack, Rear Camera, Magnetic, Built Sept 2015,Sold Oct 2018.

Mondeo TitaniumX Sport 240ps 2L Ecoboost Powershift 2011 - Sold 2016 But Never Forgotten.

2007 - 2010, 4 New Focus ST225s


#183 Bandit51

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 02:13 PM

Bandit (Steven) from your comments not sure if you have read the whole of thread.

Full details of what problem is are at early stages of thread.

Recall already happened ages ago to areas (climates) thought to be affected in USA. (Details in this thread)

Ford uk were not prepared to do anything, or a recall, but uk customers have kept applying the pressure - not just this forum, but other forums as well, including massive group on Facebook (which I don't do)

It is confirmed in e mails from Ford uk that a uk recall is imminent.

As soon as lock down is opened up more, Andy Barratt, ceo of Ford uk will be reminded yet again to "get it done" 

 

Of course, what we also want is for those that have had this failure, and already had to pay for it, to be reimbursed.

 

As Andreas is in Sweden he is out on a limb up to now.

 

If you read the recall/bulletin etc you will see that approx mid built 2015 vehs onwards are not affected - modified/different bolts and ensure vulnerable area sealed correctly, again as per the usa recall bulletin 

 

Yep Trev your right, I did not read the first part but when I did it made this guy and many others plight even more appalling than I first thought, if you think back to your college days and the metallurgy discipline the lecturers on the comparabilities of steel and alloys always said most of the time they are not, in view of the compromise with the the quality of the steel, softer being less prone to harmonic resonance/ fatigue,

The downside of this type of steel is its proclivity to engage in chemical reaction with whatever  impurities are present in the recycled alloys used, the ideal scenario would be to use new aluminium but the cost is prohibitive due to the cost of extracting the Bauxite ore and the carbon emissions involved in processing, another way around it would be to treat the bolts with some sort of photophoresis which would go a long way towards nullifying the effects of the Bi-Metal corrosion.

I have good cause to believe this problem may have been picked up when the car was being development tested and they probably used the old rule of thumb, as long as it lasts until the end of the warranty thats ok, alternatively it might have been the work of the cost cutting teams who on commencement of production suddenly found the bolts cheaper elsewhere.

I had a conventional steering pump fail on one of my Mondeos, different set up I know, but I would not wish that on anyone its heart stopping stuff conventional or otherwise, the sudden loss of control and if it had been my missus driving I am under no illusion about the end result, the alloy on the rack components is clearly the cheapest they could buy.



#184 TreborB

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 04:21 PM

 Ford do not make the steering unit.

The cheapest they could buy??? Who could buy?

 

Don't forget this is not just certain Fords. BMW, Mini and Tesla also same problem - big recalls in USA


BMW 320i M Sport 2019 Mineral Grey, Steptronic 8 speed ZF Auto

( Sorry but NO 2.3 Ecoboost 8 Speed Auto Mondeo's to be found!)

 

Focus 2018 Mk3.5, 1 Litre Ecoboost 140ps ST Line, SYNC3 Sat Nav, Parking Sensors, Colour Magnetic - Gifted to the Wife! Then Sold Aug 2019

 

Mondeo Mk5 Titanium 2L Ecoboost 240ps, X Pack, Body Kit, Rear Spoiler, 19" Alloys, LED Headlamps, Sony 12 Spkr Audio, Park Assist, Winter Pack, Rear Camera, Magnetic, Built Sept 2015,Sold Oct 2018.

Mondeo TitaniumX Sport 240ps 2L Ecoboost Powershift 2011 - Sold 2016 But Never Forgotten.

2007 - 2010, 4 New Focus ST225s


#185 Bandit51

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 12:23 PM

 Ford do not make the steering unit.

The cheapest they could buy??? Who could buy?

 

Don't forget this is not just certain Fords. BMW, Mini and Tesla also same problem - big recalls in USA

 

Trev I don't think you read the post properly, at no point did I mention the cheapest they could buy, to clarify the points you made, car makers produce cars not manufacture which is why they source all the parts they need from outside parts manufacturers to build the model they want to produce, with the exception of parts they have asked the manufacturer to engineer to their own unique specifications in which case they have a limited patent say three years placed on that item and the manufacturer is forbidden to sell the same design to any other car producer.

Normally the parts are sourced from a multitude of other manufacturers who may well sell the same parts to another producer of cars, this is known as globalisation crossover, engines, platforms, fuel/emission systems, prime example being the injectors in the later MK4 Mondeo titanium sport, these had been used by Mercedes and Audi and provided an off the shelf solution to meeting the requirements for Euro5, allied to this they used a Mitsubishi truck turbo to get the extra power.

Onward to the cost cutting, when the producer makes a successful model they then employ people to see if they can purchase production consumables plastic fittings, nuts, bolts from anywhere else in the global market at a cheaper price and as long as it meets the required technical specifications and in the steel bolts case thermal and ping test passes they will buy them, two pence less on each item makes a hell of a saving.

It probably came down to the same thing with the early MK4 Mondeo steering racks the Spanish manufactured racks were failing prematurely at a rate of knots so Fords solution was to buy from a manufacturer in Germany and the failure all but stopped, as a premium manufacturer trained technician I would have assumed you would be well aware of most of these practises within the realm of car production.



#186 Vlad Soare

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 06:51 AM

What I don't understand is how they could do this in the first place. Metallurgy is a mature science, especially as far as 'standard', ordinary metals are concerned. It's no secret that aluminum in contact with steel will corrode. Galvanic corrosion has been known for centuries, for God's sake! It's common knowledge even among people who do not work in this field, let alone those who do. How can an aluminum bolt in a steel fixture even be considered, let alone approved and implemented?

It's not like you can say "well... we might get lucky, maybe it won't corrode, let's just hope for the best". Luck has nothing to do with it. It's absolutely clear that it WILL corrode, there's no 'if' about it. The only question is when.

I understand that people make mistakes. I can understand, for instance, that one can overestimate the strength of the dashboard and not realize that it will sag under the influence of heat, or that one may forget to take electrolyte leaks into account when deciding where to place a BMS sensor. I understand mistakes. But this is no mistake, this is plain stupidity. They can't claim that they didn't know the bolts will corrode. Even I know that an aluminum bolt in a steel fixture will corrode, and I'm an IT guy with no experience or education in metallurgy, so how can they not know?



#187 TreborB

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Posted 03 June 2020 - 09:56 AM

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Steven, you say at no time did you mention "the cheapest they could buy" - but in your post 183 in your last line you say .......clearly the cheapest they could buy - anyway no worries.

In 183 you say you have good cause to believe this problem may have been picked up when the car was being development tested - is it possible you can expand on why you believe that please as any proven technical info is very valuable for any possible legal actions.

 

Here is another bit of easy reading and I don't think JLR have ever done an actual Recall

http://babyrr.com/fo...ad-11011-1.html

 

https://www.evoqueow...l-canada.15099/


Edited by TreborB, 03 June 2020 - 10:09 AM.

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BMW 320i M Sport 2019 Mineral Grey, Steptronic 8 speed ZF Auto

( Sorry but NO 2.3 Ecoboost 8 Speed Auto Mondeo's to be found!)

 

Focus 2018 Mk3.5, 1 Litre Ecoboost 140ps ST Line, SYNC3 Sat Nav, Parking Sensors, Colour Magnetic - Gifted to the Wife! Then Sold Aug 2019

 

Mondeo Mk5 Titanium 2L Ecoboost 240ps, X Pack, Body Kit, Rear Spoiler, 19" Alloys, LED Headlamps, Sony 12 Spkr Audio, Park Assist, Winter Pack, Rear Camera, Magnetic, Built Sept 2015,Sold Oct 2018.

Mondeo TitaniumX Sport 240ps 2L Ecoboost Powershift 2011 - Sold 2016 But Never Forgotten.

2007 - 2010, 4 New Focus ST225s


#188 Bandit51

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Posted 04 June 2020 - 07:02 PM

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Yes you are correct, silly me for not elaborating on the context of cheap alloy, what I should have said is the rack manufacturers buy the cheapest reclaimed alloy to make these racks,

The car producers probably view it that the rack manufactures do their own durability/ stress tests, grey area, as in the good old days when a vehicle was tested in multiple climates for many miles they would take out any components that were exposed to the elements and test their function on a purpose built jig that would test the function after many thousands of miles under normal working conditions and then accelerated stresses which would not normally occur, until at ludicrous stresses the part failed, I suspect that with the later regime of business practices where if a part fails regularly the blame is laid firmly at the door of the manufacturer of the said item who will be obliged under the internal warranty obligations to supply replacements to the producer for nothing and then foot the cost of replacement by the producer.

Ford did a real number a few years ago on Magnetti Marelli, they asked them to make an alternator for the Fiesta range which they did, as it was a new model they tested the alternator to death and to Fords dismay the thing seemed to be indestructible with a failure rate of less than 2% this was deemed as not suitable so Ford dismantled the unit and their designers made changes to key parts within the unit, this was then presented as the model spec to which they were to be manufactured.

Needless to say two years down the production line the units were failing big time because of the amended design, guess who copped for the bill, Marelli, as consequence of the avalanche of returned units the warranty of which under European law had to be honoured, Marelli were on the verge of insolvency when Ford bought them out for sod all. the only way to get to the bottom of this is to find out who makes the racks and find out the level of testing/pass rates achieved achieved as Ford/BMW/JLR will advise any one coming at them that its the manufacturers fault as they only produce the cars from out sourced parts, the only way you will get a firm resolution for this problem is if you can find the country of origin, if its Europe happy days, they would force the manufacturer concerned to hand over any test data,

any where else you don't have prayer as I don't think a lot of producers indulge in part stress testing after trialing as its not cost effective and you can beat the supplier to death over it at no cost to the producer, an eminent metallurgist who worked for Krupps once wrote in his opinion Bi- Metal corrosion is one of the most overlooked effects by designers when rigid cost factors are applied to design


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