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MOT Emissions & hesitancy - working through issues

mot smoke hesitancy egr

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#1 mintom

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:53 PM

MOT last wednesday.. we failed emissions smoke test..  2,18 average over 1.4 on plate.

So.. I'm in the middle of investigations and taking some steps to guarantee it's going to get through when I take it back..

 

Your input / thoughts as I go, most welcome?

 

Prior to MOT...

 

Car since I have owned, most liable to chuck out smoke, when I gun it off stand still e.g. from a roundabout.  Also pulling underload in the wrong gear. 

 

For the past couple of months we have been in limp mode (P132B performance). Thinking it was going to be a sticky variable vane, I was procrastinating about drilling and tapping the turbo to do a clean. As it turned out, I found after disengaging the lever, and it moving with no trouble when hot or cold, that it was the turbo actuator had failed (intermittent operation when cold, and then totally failed).  

So. Replacement actuator and lever now moving again freely.

 

 

Since MOT

 

There are no active DTCs.

 

Have changed air filter which looked way past its best.

 

I was able to provoke some symptoms which repeatedly provoked smoke.  This is with the car just sitting on the drive.

the car idles fine.

If I slowly raise the revs, no problem.

If I put the foot down straight from idle, i get hestitancy and then revs, and a puff of smoke.

I have a silicone intercooler pipe with mekalor clips.

 

LEAKDOWN

 

Did a leak down test, injector 4 filled 100ml in 60 seconds,  others negligible, and is the only injector I haven't yet replaced,

Have ordered a replacement tested injector to see if that makes any difference.

 

EGR

 

I had a replacement EGR valve bought as a precautionary step (car is euro 4 with sensor on EGR). Out of curiosity, I fitted it.

That gave me real weirdness. When I planted the foot on the throttle, I got a lengthy oscillation, much smoke, and then revs.

At present, I'm not sure if I've just got a crappy EGR (was fairly cheap) or some symptom exacerbated by the change of EGR.

 

The two EGRs seem to actuate with different vacuum thresholds. The original needs a minimum pressure then opens with a thunk.  The replacement valve seems to open with a far more linear fashion when vacuum gradually applied.

 

FORDIAG / FORSCAN

 

I have a ForDiag HW and SW and ForScan SW, and still attempting to get comfortable with the readings and configs.

Both seem to have advantages in certain situations? (formidable / F-super I have, but can't run due to windows 10 driver probs)

 

ForDiag ->TDCI gauges fuel rail temperature showed no response (min temp), but Gauges ICU->Fuel Temp? is this the same sensor?

ForScan -> First time using, I tried monitoring all the ICU-monitor points, the CPS (crank?) was showing error (waiting -> error) - I have no running or starting issues.

 

My next step is to get some reference for MAP and MAF. I wasn't sure if MAP was responding enough this eve...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


06 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia (108k)

02 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia X (original injectors, clutch fail at 188000, rusty door bottoms)


#2 nicam49

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:27 PM

*
POPULAR

What happened there?...did you nod off :-)
I'd wait for the new injector, then buy some Wynns pre-mot smoke treatment. You have to run it for 100 miles once you've added it to the fuel tank. Then perhaps just get a smoke test done to see if any improvement. (at my own test centre you can pay £12 for a smoke test)
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<p><p>nicam49 2002 Mondeo TDCi Ghia X Estate mk3 pre facelift Stardust Silver+Rust.[b] 308,000+miles, but been off the road since Nov 2019 after timing chain slipped during fuel pump transplant. Awaiting return of mojo

#3 mintom

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 10:35 PM

Haha! looks like my head hit the space bar for 5 mins .....  magical forum charisma...  yes I have hopes for the injector..  enough geekery for one weekend.. good tip on "just a smoke test" ... never thought of that...


06 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia (108k)

02 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia X (original injectors, clutch fail at 188000, rusty door bottoms)


#4 mintom

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 04:35 PM

So. An update.

Received another injector. Fitted it last night, coded in and started for the first time. Struggled to idle, heaps of smoke and uncertainty about whether injector ok, Left it till this morning, and then after a bit of coughing and spluttering, idled fine with no more smoke. All good.

So Injectors I hope are now out of the problem loop.

 

Now, at this stage, things I see..

With the new EGR in the loop..

 

On the drive, I see that the EGR % and EGR position were responding in ForDiag.

Upon first starting, there is free revving, When the car warms up to normal temp ~90, there is a little hesitation.

 

Driving up and down the street I experience.. masses of black smoke under light load, so much I'm embarassed to accelerate and accompanying curtailed peformance.  Was really surprised to see so much smoke.

 

When I remove the vacuum pipe from the new EGR, completely blocking the EGR, and again drive it up and down the street, I am getting full turbo engagement and power, with a little puff of smoke. 

 

Have not yet switched back to my original EGR for comparison.

 

Other observations I've made.

- The EGR vacuum solenoid works - most of the time?

- Detaching the vacuum end from the EGR, and using my vacuum pump as a gauge, Vacuum present at idle and vacuum is switched off, closing the EGR at about 2000rpm and above.

 

- *Though* I have seen instances where in idle, there is no vacuum generated, and EGR closed. When I restarted the engine the vacuum returned. Has anyone seen that happen? is that normal?

 

- I saw one isolated instance of P0406 earlier, but have as yet been unable to recreate.

- I saw P0405 when I disconnected the vacuum nozzle from the EGR, so obviously the EGR is opening and closing.

 

Any thoughts?


Edited by mintom, 26 June 2019 - 04:37 PM.

06 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia (108k)

02 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia X (original injectors, clutch fail at 188000, rusty door bottoms)


#5 PURPLE_2L_LX

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:17 PM

The state of the vacuum may nor relate to the EGR position.

 

The EGR maybe partially open instead of fully closed.


MK4.5 TDCI 140 Business Estate.

 

MK3 FUSE INFO CLICK HERE ... FORD WIKI CLICK HERE .... FORD ETIS CLICK HERE

Adding your location may find someone local who could offer assistance.

F-Super, Bluetooth OBDII (ELM) and a MS509 scanners (test subjects required).

ForDiag now available to victims.


#6 nicam49

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:55 PM

How much vacuum tho'? My egr opens at approx 17" Hg *
Pre-mot it was only giving 10"Hg until I traced a fault to a split in a rigid plastic vacuum pipe.
Might be worthwhile recoding all 4 injectors too.
*tho'I realise Fordiag is reporting egr % opening ok
<p><p>nicam49 2002 Mondeo TDCi Ghia X Estate mk3 pre facelift Stardust Silver+Rust.[b] 308,000+miles, but been off the road since Nov 2019 after timing chain slipped during fuel pump transplant. Awaiting return of mojo

#7 mintom

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 06:55 PM

Yes, I'm definitely in the mood for looking about the pipes for leaky vacuum.. perhaps air intake too. and scrubbing metal gaskets / surfaces for a better seal.

 

How much vacuum am I getting at the nozzle for the EGR? I recorded a video at the time of the gauge looking through the windscreen (can attach if I knew the easiest way) ... looking at the snippet, the vacuum at its highest at idle, is 23mm Hg, and the vacuum drops to 8mm Hg when revving.

 

How vacuum relates to EGR position. One of the early differences I spotted between the two EGRs was that the position reported by original was perhaps erratic, and the one replacing more steady.. a different dynamic. 

 

The original ford EGR, that I'm about to refit, for a quick comparison. it doesn't open up until ~15mm Hg. The new pattern EGR, is definitely opening up before that.

 

Recoding the injectors. good idea. Will add to the list of things to do. Out of interest, do you let the ECU retrain the injectors on the fly or disconnect the battery and reset after all recoded?


06 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia (108k)

02 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia X (original injectors, clutch fail at 188000, rusty door bottoms)


#8 PURPLE_2L_LX

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 07:45 PM

Does blanking the EGR with a solid plate (2mm ish) cure the smoke?

 

Double check the actuator arm moves fully to the front and rear with no

resistance at all.

 

What fuel pressure and boost pressure are you getting whilst parked.

 

Values whilst parked at idle, 2000, 3000 and 4000 rpm..

 

Disconnecting the battery does very little if anything other than reset the windows

and locking and loses the radio code.


MK4.5 TDCI 140 Business Estate.

 

MK3 FUSE INFO CLICK HERE ... FORD WIKI CLICK HERE .... FORD ETIS CLICK HERE

Adding your location may find someone local who could offer assistance.

F-Super, Bluetooth OBDII (ELM) and a MS509 scanners (test subjects required).

ForDiag now available to victims.


#9 nicam49

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 09:45 PM

Well, 25mmHg is 1"Hg.not enough to open egr. Haynes says should read 500mmHg after 1 min engine running... Thats 20"Hg.hopefully you've misread the gauge/units.You DO have the vac pipe terminated at the gauge.and not open-ended?
As I said already my egr opens at 17"Hg, as I measured it using a vacuum pump.
*disclaimer note: mine is a euro3 with side-mounted egr and vac operated turbo actuator, there might be some differences to yours, but 23mmHg isn't very much vacuum 🤔
<p><p>nicam49 2002 Mondeo TDCi Ghia X Estate mk3 pre facelift Stardust Silver+Rust.[b] 308,000+miles, but been off the road since Nov 2019 after timing chain slipped during fuel pump transplant. Awaiting return of mojo

#10 mintom

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 10:18 PM

Well, 25mmHg is 1"Hg.not enough to open egr. Haynes says should read 500mmHg after 1 min engine running... Thats 20"Hg.hopefully you've misread the gauge/units......

 

Aha! Learned many things today including ...... reading units on vacuum gauges :biggrin:20190626_230821.jpg


Edited by mintom, 26 June 2019 - 10:19 PM.

06 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia (108k)

02 TDCI 130 Estate Ghia X (original injectors, clutch fail at 188000, rusty door bottoms)






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