Inlet swirl flaps - revisions and options? - Exhausts / Induction (Mk3 Mondeo) - TalkFord.com

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Inlet swirl flaps - revisions and options?


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34 replies to this topic

#1 badmonkey

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 07:38 AM

I'm planning on sorting my flaps, I'd rather replace with new and fix properly rather than remove the flaps completely.

 

I have a read a bunch on this forum, I have read through most of the stickies, and the wiki articles where there's a lot of great info but much is disparate and hard to consolidate.

 

I understand there is either revised flaps or a revised intake manifold (?).

 

With that in mind I have a 2002 motor. My oil separator / PCV hose is the old 13 mm OD rather than the new (apparently 19 mm).

 

If I buy new flaps, the following questions occur to me:

  • Will the 'revised' flaps fit any year manifold or was there a change to the actual manifold design that I should upgrade?
  • The flap kits I can find include only the flaps and their brackets for about £40, or £65 with gaskets*. But the actuator rod seems to be something that fails also; I haven't yet checked mine, but is the rod available separately? Anyone know a part #?
  • If I replace the oil separator / PCV hose and maybe PCV valve, will the new diameter hose fit the manifold and is the valve the same (i.e. is the internal diameter of the hose unchanged I guess).
  • * This has to be the worst value in parts I've come across in my Ford-fixing time. Anyone know of better pricing?

Who knows?


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#2 paul05149

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 12:44 PM

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Ford do not have the 3.5mm square section 395mm long metal bar as spare part, you have to buy the complete inlet manifold! £££'s
If I were you (and I have) I would do the flap removal and run you car with no flaps and 'see' how you get on before spending £££'s on parts that have failed and will fail again and in my case I was happy with how the car continued to run and was also well pleased when it passed it's emissions testing.

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[URL=http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/mondeo/2001/Texus/756013]

#3 badmonkey

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 01:22 PM

So is the rod just a square bar as you describe? From photos I can find it seems as much, although it's usually pictured in pieces :) - are you suggesting simple stock cut to length with no extra work would suffice? Is there no machining done at the actuator end?

 

I wonder why it fails in the 1st place, does it corrode - can't imagine it would wear against plastic. Some decent grade of stainless steel would do the job I expect?


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#4 stripe88

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 02:01 PM

think you may find the orange coloured flaps on yours if original, they swapped to the black thicker collar ones.

i will be suprised if the bar shows no sign of wear if original, i had to replace flaps in mine as the car didnt like it with no flaps, but most run fine. just turned the bar over and flipped it around so it wouldnt wear in the same place, gave it a good test first though to make sure it was strong enough.



#5 badmonkey

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:54 AM

Thanks for the responses. Got it all off today, flaps are the black ones so must have been replaced previously. They are in better condition than I thought they might be. Some movement on the outside one where it's definitely worn, presumably enough to generate the rattling I had thought was the issue to begin with. So will replace. The rod is re-usable.

 

Other issue - my PCV / oil separator hose is stuffed, and I will also replace the PCV valve while I have access to it. Does anyone know which part #s I need?

I am looking here: http://autopartmaste...45&id_pic=21453

which has part #s but I am confused by the multiple date options, do I want the parts that match my 2002 or rather just go for the latest?

Will the latest hose and valve # fit the 2002 oil separator and intake manifold respectively?

 

IMAG0253.jpg

IMAG0252.jpg

IMAG0255.jpg


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#6 paul05149

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:16 AM

The later PCV hose from oil separator to inlet manifold is a larger diameter than the early ones and because of this the later ones are more prone to failure as they are able to'flex' more when under vacuum/pressure when in use, I would not expect to two to be interchangeable as the manifold/separator spigots will be different accordingly. Might be able to source a performance silicon after market pipe if your lucky as opposed to changing oil separator etc.

Paul m.
[URL=http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/mondeo/2001/Texus/756013]

#7 badmonkey

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:32 AM

By the way found this link more reliable: http://eucatparts.co...5&s_id_model=88

 

Okay will order the parts that match the car. Thanks Paul.

 

By the way while I'm at it, if I pull off the oil separator body (not just the PCV valve) just to inspect/clean it, would I need to replace its gasket?


Edited by badmonkey, 13 January 2016 - 10:33 AM.

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#8 stripe88

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 04:29 PM

i didnt just cleaned all, just be careful doing the separator back up, just nick up the bolts and dont go to mad or it will crack (10nm) if your wrench goes that low.



#9 siruncle

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:01 PM

By the way found this link more reliable: http://eucatparts.co...5&s_id_model=88

 

Okay will order the parts that match the car. Thanks Paul.

 

By the way while I'm at it, if I pull off the oil separator body (not just the PCV valve) just to inspect/clean it, would I need to replace its gasket?

handy link, i use it quite a lot, hover over the ? columns for application.

Out of all the flaps posts, i reckon i've seen about 2 or 3 that removed the flaps and had issues afterwards, but the 2 or 3 are outweighed by at least 10-1 where there has been no effect whatsoever.
If you take the inlet manifold off a zetec, dohc or pinto engine (the 3 predecessors of the duratec) you will find no flaps. If i owned a mk3, the flaps and rod would be decorating the bottom of my wheelie bin by the following sunday after purchase.

Either way, hope all goes (or went, lol) well :L


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#10 RB2004

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:34 PM

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I have to say, no offence, I hate that term no effect whatsoever.

Should be writing no noticeable effect whatsoever instead.

Only way you are going to know no effect whatsoever is with flow and engine cell dyno testing with and without... Something ford have probably done already which is why they installed the flaps in first place because it solved something they perceived as a problem and nobody is qualified other than ford to conclusively say the engine is better off without them... Was designed with them, ford don't spend money designing, developing and testing things which are useless to an engine... It's too expensive... And makes engine more expensive to make also which doesn't fit in with fords money saving.

Yes people post that engine runs fine without them and anybody who wants to run without them also up to them... But nobody other than ford it's designers and testers are qualified to make the judgement that the engine is better without them.

It's a personal opinion and it's an individual choice.

But far too many people are removing them on the say so of people not qualified to make a judgement saying engine runs fine without them... Rather than weighing up pros, cons and making an informed descision for themselves.

I'm sure this post will annoy some people, but nobody on the Internet has spent the millions ford did testing and development the engine and nobody outside of ford has that test data to look at.

Just bear in mind that ford won't spend millions designing and testing useless features on a car or powertrain.
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