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Air Con Not Working - A Couple Of Questions.


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#11 sgking

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

the condenser is the weak point on these cars. have a look, it will more than likley be rotten at the base. seems that they need to be replaced every five years or so. so if you fail a pressure test, you blame the condenser first (unless there is visual confirmation of a leak elsewhere)
Mondeo 2000 ST24

Mondeo ST200 Limited Edition no 181/300 'Ghia X'

#12 RB2004

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

I will explain why nitrogen shows up things vacuum doesn't.

When you remove the air inside the system creating a vacuum, it pulls everything closer together... Same way that your diaphragm in your body allows the lungs to drop down which pulls in air.

So, if you are pulling things tighter together it "can" effectively seal up a leak.

But pressurising the system with nitrogen will force things apart, effectively simulating the pressures of a working system... Therefore showing the leak.

Have to remember the system operates as a pressurised system. 150psi on average sometimes higher sometimes lower.

It does not operate normally under a vacuum!

So a vacuum isn't effective at simulating the circumstances under which a leak will occur.

This was why the pipe didnt show up as leaking, also the leak was so small that there wasn't even a drop in nitrogen pressure. It was good old manual detective work by listening for leaks and spraying the joins and things down which discovered the leak.

This is why automatic machines fail, because they are so dumbed down that anybody can use them, only problem is it removes the manual hunting for leaks.

Don't get me wrong, on a leak free healthy system they are great if operated correctly, but on a leaking system forget it, they miss too many leaks.

Before I got qualified I was even victim to this, I got somebody down, he gassed it up, said it was vacuuming down nicely and was therefore leak free.

Then it lost its gas, got put on a machine and that said it was also leak free.

Then I got qualified and had a go at it myself, discovered not only was the filling valve leaking slightly... But there was a leaking "o" ring, the oily deposit around the join gave it away.

Fixed those and the gas has been fine since.. But same thing shown there, vacuum pulled the seal tighter together, that hid the leak.

Another failing of the automatic machine is, they don't normally check the service ports for leakage... With hoses connected up, no leak is apparently because the port is covered by the hose connector.

Disconnect the hose from the port, and of course no longer covered so refrigerant starts leaking away... Those are the most common places.

#13 RB2004

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:32 PM

the condenser is the weak point on these cars. have a look, it will more than likley be rotten at the base. seems that they need to be replaced every five years or so. so if you fail a pressure test, you blame the condenser first (unless there is visual confirmation of a leak elsewhere)


Can confirm this,

Ford fitted a piece of foam to the bottom of the condenser.

The foam holds water, which in turn rotted the condensers.

#14 Automondeo

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

I am replacing the front discs and pads over the weekend, so whilst the car is up on stands i will whip the splash shield off and have a look at the condition of the condenser. (That's if i can get a good look at it from underneath?) If it looks rotten i will get it replaced before i go for a re-gas. I had the sub-frame off a year ago and i do seem to remember it all looked a bit cruddy under there, not sure if that was just the bottom of the main rad. I will investigate.

Edited by Automondeo, 02 May 2013 - 08:29 PM.

R reg 1997 Mondeo 2.0lt Ghia 4 Door Saloon Auto. No mods. Gearbox from a later black topped engined car successfully transplanted in place of my original box. (I have a copy of the CD4E service manual - if you need anything, let me know).


#15 Automondeo

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

Good job i looked at the condenser! It is totally rotten, looks like the bottom layer of it's come totally away from from the rest of it. Certainly will not be going for a re-gas just yet. Might stop by ebay first and pick up one of those that are on there for just under £50.

Oh well, thanks for the information about checking the condenser, very glad i did.

R reg 1997 Mondeo 2.0lt Ghia 4 Door Saloon Auto. No mods. Gearbox from a later black topped engined car successfully transplanted in place of my original box. (I have a copy of the CD4E service manual - if you need anything, let me know).


#16 sgking

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 07:44 PM

you can get them for just over half that, well last time i looked they were?
Mondeo 2000 ST24

Mondeo ST200 Limited Edition no 181/300 'Ghia X'

#17 Automondeo

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:19 AM

you can get them for just over half that, well last time i looked they were?


That is what i thought, i could have sworn i had seen some on ebay for much a lot less than £50, but i cannot see any under that price now. Cannot afford it for a couple of weeks, so shall keep looking for a better deal until then.

If i cannot find them any cheaper i will buy one from CarParts4Less, they do them for £51 with free delivery. I have used them a lot lately, good pricing on a lot of stuff, and if your in a rush you can get next day delivery for another £3.95. Plus you can pay with Paypal. I like the fact that you just put in your reg No and it will automatically bring up stuff for your car when you browse the site.

But, whatever, i will get my air con working again for the summer, i really miss not having it.

R reg 1997 Mondeo 2.0lt Ghia 4 Door Saloon Auto. No mods. Gearbox from a later black topped engined car successfully transplanted in place of my original box. (I have a copy of the CD4E service manual - if you need anything, let me know).


#18 RB2004

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:22 PM

Don't forget to factor in a drier in your costings!

While its a separate component, fact the bottom of the condenser was rotten and an open leak your drier is shot, they only have a 4 hour lifespan when open to air.

Not changing can cause degradation of the system later on, as its purpose is to soak up moisture, which it can't do if its completely saturated already.

#19 Automondeo

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:19 AM

Don't forget to factor in a drier in your costings!

While its a separate component, fact the bottom of the condenser was rotten and an open leak your drier is shot, they only have a 4 hour lifespan when open to air.

Not changing can cause degradation of the system later on, as its purpose is to soak up moisture, which it can't do if its completely saturated already.


Thank you for that info, that is something i would not have known about if you had not mentioned it. Something i will indeed do then, seeing that i want the repair to last hopefully as long as the mondy does!

Cheers.

P.S: I just read the item description on the link i gave above, sure enough, it says that it is vital that i also replace the drier. Good call!

Edited by Automondeo, 06 May 2013 - 12:22 AM.

R reg 1997 Mondeo 2.0lt Ghia 4 Door Saloon Auto. No mods. Gearbox from a later black topped engined car successfully transplanted in place of my original box. (I have a copy of the CD4E service manual - if you need anything, let me know).


#20 Automondeo

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:47 AM

you can get them for just over half that, well last time i looked they were?


That is what i thought, i could have sworn i had seen some on ebay for much a lot less than £50, but i cannot see any under that price now.


Of course, it always helps if i were to get my spelling right when searching ebay, searching for condensor did not find me the cheap ones, but searching for "condenser" did! £23.95, and that includes delivery!

http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1439.l2649

Needless to say i have just ordered one. Just a drier and re-gas and hopefully all will be well again - Cool!

R reg 1997 Mondeo 2.0lt Ghia 4 Door Saloon Auto. No mods. Gearbox from a later black topped engined car successfully transplanted in place of my original box. (I have a copy of the CD4E service manual - if you need anything, let me know).





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