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Looking for some help

2K views 23 replies 5 participants last post by  Rekusu 
#1 ·
Hi everybody, faced some strange problems with my Ford Mondeo MK4 BA7 2007 2.0 TDI.

So it all happened when I bought some bulbs from China for ~70euro that transform my Xenon to LED. When I installed them and started my car it died in 2-3 seconds. I couldn't start it again after that, so I checked all the fuses just by looking into to them, all were good. Did diagnostic with ForScan and found that battery voltage is low so I charged battery over night up to full but it didn't solved the problem, just that it now showed only two errors that I don't think is relative. I bought multimeter and tested relays as well all the fuses again, all were good. I tried to spray starting fluid to air intake still nothing. I tried to check some parameters with ForScan, like fuel pressure and some more. I'm not an electric nor the mechanic so I just googled all the things but could find any problem with the parameters it showed me. (I'm adding photos of it so if some one understands more it would be great to check them.) Car up to this moment worked perfectly.

Strange think that I saw was on my instrument cluster (Convers+) time is frozen, I read that if instrument cluster is broken it can prevent car from starting so you won't cheat on your odometer or so. Any ideas on that ? Should I try to change my instrument cluster ?

Any help is appreciated.
 

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#2 ·
Does the engine crank over fairly fast or really slowly?

If it started and ran initially then i doubt it was the battery at fault, whats the fuel

pressure when cranking?
 
#3 ·
Will check it tomorrow.
Today we tried spraying starting fluid for a bit longer then last time, the engine starts and dies instantly, it seems it don't get fuel..

As for instrument cluster it was my bad, I just had to set time for it to unfreeze :biggrin:

As well I have a question about ECU, could it be that somehow those LED shorted it ? And can I use 7g91-12a650-uf instead of my 7g91-12a650-df, they seem both have been made at same year, as well same TDCi 2.0 engine. But I found 7g91-12a650-uf (which is different then mine) for a cheap price and could try to change it myself.
 
#4 ·
May be a dumb suggestion but if you have up-graded the lights to LED, have you tried 'down-grading' to the bulbs you took out?

Of course, if up-grading has caused an electrical issue, it is unlikely that replacing with the originals will instantly cure it, but you never know.
 
#6 ·
May be a dumb suggestion but if you have up-graded the lights to LED, have you tried 'down-grading' to the bulbs you took out?

Of course, if up-grading has caused an electrical issue, it is unlikely that replacing with the originals will instantly cure it, but you never know.
Question sounds fair, and yes I did it, first I tried just to unplug LED and yeasterday I put my old Xenon bulbs. But it didn't solved the problem.

All fuses checked by looking and by multimeter as well. Do you suggest still to change it or what ?
 
#7 ·
12.44volts at the battery, you should get that on charge before it gets any

lower. Nothing worse than trying to diagnose a fault and a low battery

condition making matters worse.

Fuel pressure when cranking?
 
#8 ·
May be a dumb suggestion but if you have up-graded the lights to LED, have you tried 'down-grading' to the bulbs you took out?

Of course, if up-grading has caused an electrical issue, it is unlikely that replacing with the originals will instantly cure it, but you never know.
Question sounds fair, and yes I did it, first I tried just to unplug LED and yeasterday I put my old Xenon bulbs. But it didn't solved the problem.

All fuses checked by looking and by multimeter as well. Do you suggest still to change it or what ?
Did you check for voltage at the fuse as well as continuity.
 
#9 ·
12.44volts at the battery, you should get that on charge before it gets any

lower. Nothing worse than trying to diagnose a fault and a low battery

condition making matters worse.

Fuel pressure when cranking?
What should the voltage be on fully charged battery ? I thought it's fine 12.4-12.6.

I went today to test fuse and see fuel pressure so when testing a fuse I saw 11.05V on fuel pump fuse but it seems that battery went close to dead so I'm charging it right now. Fuel pressure was 430-450kPa when tried to start the car but as I said battery droped to 11.4V...
The battery for sure needs to be changed becouse I charged it close to full two days ago and tried 2-3 times to start car for around 10s each time and then kept on ignition for max 15-20minutes. But the car still should start if I charge it and at that time it shows let's say 12.6V or more?
 
#10 ·
450kpa = 4.5 bar you need approx 250bar to start the car. your fuel pressure

is very low.

Is the fuel filter full? Try bleeding the fuel system.
 
#11 ·
12.44volts at the battery, you should get that on charge before it gets any
lower. Nothing worse than trying to diagnose a fault and a low battery
condition making matters worse.

Fuel pressure when cranking?
What should the voltage be on fully charged battery ? I thought it's fine 12.4-12.6.

I went today to test fuse and see fuel pressure so when testing a fuse I saw 11.05V on fuel pump fuse but it seems that battery went close to dead so I'm charging it right now. Fuel pressure was 430-450kPa when tried to start the car but as I said battery droped to 11.4V...
The battery for sure needs to be changed becouse I charged it close to full two days ago and tried 2-3 times to start car for around 10s each time and then kept on ignition for max 15-20minutes. But the car still should start if I charge it and at that time it shows let's say 12.6V or more?
Dont know what's wrong & Sorry can't help...However, last year when I had to visit reputable auto electrician The 1st thing he noticed was my led sidelights "Get them out asap, most people get away with them but if they short on a Ford Mondeo You will run into serious problems with the ecu failing to communicate correctly"....I loved the bright sidelights but took his advice....Hope You Get Sorted

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#13 ·
12.44volts at the battery, you should get that on charge before it gets any
lower. Nothing worse than trying to diagnose a fault and a low battery
condition making matters worse.

Fuel pressure when cranking?
What should the voltage be on fully charged battery ? I thought it's fine 12.4-12.6.

I went today to test fuse and see fuel pressure so when testing a fuse I saw 11.05V on fuel pump fuse but it seems that battery went close to dead so I'm charging it right now. Fuel pressure was 430-450kPa when tried to start the car but as I said battery droped to 11.4V...
The battery for sure needs to be changed becouse I charged it close to full two days ago and tried 2-3 times to start car for around 10s each time and then kept on ignition for max 15-20minutes. But the car still should start if I charge it and at that time it shows let's say 12.6V or more?
Dont know what's wrong & Sorry can't help...However, last year when I had to visit reputable auto electrician The 1st thing he noticed was my led sidelights "Get them out asap, most people get away with them but if they short on a Ford Mondeo You will run into serious problems with the ecu failing to communicate correctly"....I loved the bright sidelights but took his advice....Hope You Get Sorted

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well that's sounds exactly what I'm suspecting now, and it would be kinda good news, becouse I can get ECU for a good price and change it myself. Don't really know how to test if it went bad. Strange think is that diagnostic don't show any errors, even when I left the car without bulbs at all...
 
#14 ·
12.44volts at the battery, you should get that on charge before it gets any
lower. Nothing worse than trying to diagnose a fault and a low battery
condition making matters worse.

Fuel pressure when cranking?
What should the voltage be on fully charged battery ? I thought it's fine 12.4-12.6.

I went today to test fuse and see fuel pressure so when testing a fuse I saw 11.05V on fuel pump fuse but it seems that battery went close to dead so I'm charging it right now. Fuel pressure was 430-450kPa when tried to start the car but as I said battery droped to 11.4V...
The battery for sure needs to be changed becouse I charged it close to full two days ago and tried 2-3 times to start car for around 10s each time and then kept on ignition for max 15-20minutes. But the car still should start if I charge it and at that time it shows let's say 12.6V or more?
Dont know what's wrong & Sorry can't help...However, last year when I had to visit reputable auto electrician The 1st thing he noticed was my led sidelights "Get them out asap, most people get away with them but if they short on a Ford Mondeo You will run into serious problems with the ecu failing to communicate correctly"....I loved the bright sidelights but took his advice....Hope You Get Sorted

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well that's sounds exactly what I'm suspecting now, and it would be kinda good news, becouse I can get ECU for a good price and change it myself. Don't really know how to test if it went bad. Strange think is that diagnostic don't show any errors, even when I left the car without bulbs at all...
It is a really strange one?...Despite auto electricians advice I did Drive for another few weeks with the led sidelight bulbs but found out that despite new headlights I was still getting condensation problems.... I bought 2 rear dust covers drilled them to 36mm,placed fine mesh on bulb side & fitted 2x 40mm pc fans to rig to a small switch inside & bought some 20awg wire online with a bunch of 2.5amp fuses & connectors....I had underestimated by about 2ft the amount of wire needed & whilst awaiting more, the car was due mot...So I asked my m8 who does all for me to just put in ordinary bulbs...No more condensation so my thoughts I assume were right that the leds were getting too hot in the cold weather...Other thing I noticed was the response was more active & accurate going into bends....Auto electrician advised me as the leds had done the ecu in on his wife's car....I still can't see how a few leds would wreak such havoc though but electronics on car I Stay well away from as TBH it's out of my league now...Last wiring I done was on a mk1 Capri... I run your post past my lad who is a software engineer....He has REALLY opened my eyes with cheap phone chargers & other electrical gadgets bought from China by exposing dangerous to the extreme malware that could fry phones etc etc...I used to think it was all paranoid bulls**t till I was shown...blew me away!!...He literally tests everything now but with valuable data I suppose he cannot Take Risk...I Been searching online for you & asking mechanic friends but you know the score....it could be x,y,z or all combined but I still can't understand how a few bulbs???...Hopefully an electronic expert will see this post & jump in...2 weeks back just after mot my Mondeo was wild hard to select reverse...Oh NO!!!....went to 3 different mechanics who said same thing as I already suspected clutch kit & dmf...£700 for parts alone but of course it would not do it whilst at mechanics...Though they were all too keen to ask when I wanted work done...Anyway, I cannot afford money like that & lifted gaitor & sprayed white lithium grease on linkages....next day all ok, So fingers crossed as my only option would be to drive it out, break a pristine car & look for very cheap van(I use wheelchair)...Love The Mondeo But small pockets & Mondeos don't mix...So, it's case of watch this space after shelling out for new afl lights,discs, wheel bearings,wishbones, etc etc....exhaust all options before shelling out Bud....Hope All Works Out Good For You In End....Think my next will be a Honda 50 with sidecar for the cat!!.... Best Regards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#15 ·
H

12.44volts at the battery, you should get that on charge before it gets any
lower. Nothing worse than trying to diagnose a fault and a low battery
condition making matters worse.

Fuel pressure when cranking?
What should the voltage be on fully charged battery ? I thought it's fine 12.4-12.6.

I went today to test fuse and see fuel pressure so when testing a fuse I saw 11.05V on fuel pump fuse but it seems that battery went close to dead so I'm charging it right now. Fuel pressure was 430-450kPa when tried to start the car but as I said battery droped to 11.4V...
The battery for sure needs to be changed becouse I charged it close to full two days ago and tried 2-3 times to start car for around 10s each time and then kept on ignition for max 15-20minutes. But the car still should start if I charge it and at that time it shows let's say 12.6V or more?
Dont know what's wrong & Sorry can't help...However, last year when I had to visit reputable auto electrician The 1st thing he noticed was my led sidelights "Get them out asap, most people get away with them but if they short on a Ford Mondeo You will run into serious problems with the ecu failing to communicate correctly"....I loved the bright sidelights but took his advice....Hope You Get Sorted

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well that's sounds exactly what I'm suspecting now, and it would be kinda good news, becouse I can get ECU for a good price and change it myself. Don't really know how to test if it went bad. Strange think is that diagnostic don't show any errors, even when I left the car without bulbs at all...
It is a really strange one?...Despite auto electricians advice I did Drive for another few weeks with the led sidelight bulbs but found out that despite new headlights I was still getting condensation problems.... I bought 2 rear dust covers drilled them to 36mm,placed fine mesh on bulb side & fitted 2x 40mm pc fans to rig to a small switch inside & bought some 20awg wire online with a bunch of 2.5amp fuses & connectors....I had underestimated by about 2ft the amount of wire needed & whilst awaiting more, the car was due mot...So I asked my m8 who does all for me to just put in ordinary bulbs...No more condensation so my thoughts I assume were right that the leds were getting too hot in the cold weather...Other thing I noticed was the response was more active & accurate going into bends....Auto electrician advised me as the leds had done the ecu in on his wife's car....I still can't see how a few leds would wreak such havoc though but electronics on car I Stay well away from as TBH it's out of my league now...Last wiring I done was on a mk1 Capri... I run your post past my lad who is a software engineer....He has REALLY opened my eyes with cheap phone chargers & other electrical gadgets bought from China by exposing dangerous to the extreme malware that could fry phones etc etc...I used to think it was all paranoid bulls**t till I was shown...blew me away!!...He literally tests everything now but with valuable data I suppose he cannot Take Risk...I Been searching online for you & asking mechanic friends but you know the score....it could be x,y,z or all combined but I still can't understand how a few bulbs???...Hopefully an electronic expert will see this post & jump in...2 weeks back just after mot my Mondeo was wild hard to select reverse...Oh NO!!!....went to 3 different mechanics who said same thing as I already suspected clutch kit & dmf...£700 for parts alone but of course it would not do it whilst at mechanics...Though they were all too keen to ask when I wanted work done...Anyway, I cannot afford money like that & lifted gaitor & sprayed white lithium grease on linkages....next day all ok, So fingers crossed as my only option would be to drive it out, break a pristine car & look for very cheap van(I use wheelchair)...Love The Mondeo But small pockets & Mondeos don't mix...So, it's case of watch this space after shelling out for new afl lights,discs, wheel bearings,wishbones, etc etc....exhaust all options before shelling out Bud....Hope All Works Out Good For You In End....Think my next will be a Honda 50 with sidecar for the cat!!.... Best Regards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey man, thanks for taking care and asking around. Sad to hear about your situation... If I will try to change ECU and it will help I will most definitely report here, so you or other guys will know that as you say just few of led bulbs can do that :D
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
450kpa = 4.5 bar you need approx 250bar to start the car. your fuel pressure

is very low.

Is the fuel filter full? Try bleeding the fuel system.
Today I tried with my friends car battery connected to my car, so voltage on ForScan shown 13V, but when trying to start the car fuel pressure was the same ~430kpa... And when starting the car, voltage droped to 9-10V

May be a dumb suggestion but if you have up-graded the lights to LED, have you tried 'down-grading' to the bulbs you took out?

Of course, if up-grading has caused an electrical issue, it is unlikely that replacing with the originals will instantly cure it, but you never know.
Question sounds fair, and yes I did it, first I tried just to unplug LED and yeasterday I put my old Xenon bulbs. But it didn't solved the problem.

All fuses checked by looking and by multimeter as well. Do you suggest still to change it or what ?
Did you check for voltage at the fuse as well as continuity.
I checked fuse on good battery it was 12.4V, I think that's alright

Any ideas? Should I try to change ECU ?
 
#17 ·
Checked the voltage under load or with everything off?

Do this test... http://www.talkford.com/topic/205394-battery-test-procedure/

Post the results here for eact step before the engine needs to start. It will give us

a clue as to the batteries health.

Some jump leads are not really designed for a modern diesel engines. A weak battery

could be sapping the power rather that pushing that power to the startermotor.

Do the initial battery test and check the fuel system is primed.
 
#18 ·
Checked the voltage under load or with everything off?

Do this test... http://www.talkford.com/topic/205394-battery-test-procedure/

Post the results here for eact step before the engine needs to start. It will give us
a clue as to the batteries health.

Some jump leads are not really designed for a modern diesel engines. A weak battery
could be sapping the power rather that pushing that power to the startermotor.

Do the initial battery test and check the fuel system is primed.
Purple....Let's hope the leds were just coincidental to a separate problem...If anyone has knowledge base its You...can't believe a few leds could do this?...Hopefully summat else....My Mondeo has me at wits end....Lockdown ends, then car plays up...Feel like banging head off many walls!...Anyhoooz....Have A Great Weekend

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
Never heard of anything like LEDs breaking an ECU. Even shorting them out

should be a small risk. They should be designed in such a way to take some

abuse before failing.

With canbus i guess it opens a whole can of worms, could a lighting defect cause

issues with other circuits?

I would expect a checksum to be applied so one circuit does not give commands to

another.

The low fuel pressure needs looking into, coincidence or cranking with a weak battery

blown a fuse or burnt a wire out?
 
#20 ·
Never heard of anything like LEDs breaking an ECU. Even shorting them out
should be a small risk. They should be designed in such a way to take some
abuse before failing.

With canbus i guess it opens a whole can of worms, could a lighting defect cause
issues with other circuits?

I would expect a checksum to be applied so one circuit does not give commands to
another.

The low fuel pressure needs looking into, coincidence or cranking with a weak battery
blown a fuse or burnt a wire out?
Yes... I think your right...The Guy I know is very Good but after diagnosing (& As you know) I went for new afl lights only to find a "green" with corrosion n/s connector had been problem, we haven't spoke since...Though I intend to call just to ensure him there's no hard feelings... I hear He has had his own fair share of terrible times so a bit of comfort is in order....There's been many cases on forum where your original thoughts have led to answers...Many, Many , Times...We ALL owe you a debt of gratitude...Fondest Regards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
Never heard of anything like LEDs breaking an ECU. Even shorting them out
should be a small risk. They should be designed in such a way to take some
abuse before failing.

With canbus i guess it opens a whole can of worms, could a lighting defect cause
issues with other circuits?

I would expect a checksum to be applied so one circuit does not give commands to
another.

The low fuel pressure needs looking into, coincidence or cranking with a weak battery
blown a fuse or burnt a wire out?
Yes... I think your right...The Guy I know is very Good but after diagnosing (& As you know) I went for new afl lights only to find a "green" with corrosion n/s connector had been problem, we haven't spoke since...Though I intend to call just to ensure him there's no hard feelings... I hear He has had his own fair share of terrible times so a bit of comfort is in order....There's been many cases on forum where your original thoughts have led to answers...Many, Many , Times...We ALL owe you a debt of gratitude...Fondest Regards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Soz 4 being a pain Purple....Any tips on heater vent removal?....little clip for shutting both flaps has dropped inside....I tried to PM Ray but the app said he couldn't accept any more messages?....Many Thanks In Advance.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#22 ·
450kpa = 4.5 bar you need approx 250bar to start the car. your fuel pressure

is very low.

Is the fuel filter full? Try bleeding the fuel system.
So if anyone reading for solution there it is - LED lights wasn't the problem. Apparently my fuel measure was faulty and got probably close to empty tank so when I tried to start a car hose got air in it and it prevented from starting the car. So all I had to do as this one guy suggested to bleed the hose and that's it. Thanks for those who tried to help !
 
#23 ·
Quite easy to dismiss some faults and think nah it cannot be that.

Old MK3 Diesel thread where someone had issues for ages, tried many

fixes and it was all down to the small foil/cardboard cap found on the

bottles of fuel additive.

The small disc had fallen into the tank at some point and drove the owner

mad trying to find the fault. Picture of John Cleese thrashing his Austin

1100/1300 with a branch off a tree springs to mind. Showing my age? :)
 
#24 ·
"Picture of John Cleese thrashing his Austin 1100/1300 with a branch off a tree springs to mind. Showing my age?"

In which case, I am a member of the same club!

When I call a company, and not only have a wide range of options to listen to, before I am put on hold for god only know how long, but told that my call is very important, it brings to mind the Monty Python Gasman sketch. That is making me even older!

Had a look on YouTube recently and I don't recall why it was so amusing at the time.
 
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