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Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 2012 - DPF pressure differential readings

10K views 30 replies 9 participants last post by  PURPLE_2L_LX 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Folks,

Dash warning came up the other day, "engine malfunction", a few minutes into a long drive...nil physical symptoms.

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90 miles into the journey, popped into independent garage and P244c-00-6d was the reason. (DPF failed to reach sufficient temp for regen.)

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He noted DPF pressure differential was 10kpa (100mbar?....but I cannot remember if this was at idle or whilst raising revs.), and explained this suggested the DPF was partially blocked, it had attempted to do a regen, and failed to do complete it due to above error.

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He also explained vaporiser (diesel injector), and its function, just upstream of DPF, and suggested it may be the issue.(blocked?)

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I was on my way up to the Midlands, so I (stupidly?)requested he cleared DTC, and that I would give it a good thrashing in 4th for 20 mins and monitor to see if the MIL returned. (my risk)

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I have subsequently covered best part of 6 hrs motorway driving since then, along with maybe 5 hrs local driving, with no further issues.

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Ordered ELM327, downloaded Forscan, and scoured the web for many hours learning about the injector/glowplug/4Hz pump etc.

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Unfortunately, I have no idea if it has had a successful regen or not, since the dash warning, as I don't have any PID relating to DIST_REGEN available to view.

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I took it for a short drive, Forscan connected and observed:-

DPF_DP Varied between 0 and 9kPa (between 800 and 2200rpm)

DPF_SOOT 38%

DPF_LOAD 51%

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Sat in car park, and revved up, stationary, to 3900rpm for 10 secs:-

DPF_DP absolute max of 8kPa

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I have spent most of the afternoon searching, and can't for the life of me find any information on typical DPF pressure differential values.

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Please shout if you have the answer, or can offer any advice on the basis of the above information.

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Many thanks!!

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Steve

(SORRY......NOW POSTED IN "EXHAUSTS")
 
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#2 ·
If the problem persists remove, inspect and test the vapouriser and fuse.

If the vapouriser passes it may be a temperature related open circuit in the heating element, consider replacing it.

Thrashing the car is not an effective remedy, as it is up to the engine management system to decide when to raise the temeperature of the DPF.
This happens automatically only when the DPF is at normal operating temperature and over a specific soot load.
 
#3 ·
Been mentioned before the DW10C engine will regen even at low speeds as long as

all the conditions are met. Engine/exhaust temperature.

Mine gets to around 80% and then regens. If it gets to 300% then you will need to

clear those figures before attempting another regen.
 
#29 ·
Been mentioned before the DW10C engine will regen even at low speeds as long as all the conditions are met. Engine/exhaust temperature. Mine gets to around 80% and then regens. If it gets to 300% then you will need to clear those figures before attempting another regen.
Can I ask how you clear those figures. I am currently repairing one, temp sensor had failed, dpf was heavily clogged. Replaced DPF and temp sensor, closed loop now showing decent readings, open loop at 302% which is keeping the engine malfunction light on. Resetting learned values is not clearing the open loop data, driving it for 60 miles didn't cause a recalculation. Currently the battery is off seeing if a hard reset of the RAM will work, I'll know in the morning. If this is a locked section of software I'll be reporting it to the IMI for breaking UK law and sending it to ford for a reset or is there a known trick I'm missing to reset that pcm calculation after a dpf replace?
 
#4 ·
Many thanks for your responses.

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In that case, I presume that the soot level must have reached 80% at some point for the code to have appeared in the first place.

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The fact that the levels are well below that now, suggests it must have eventually performed as successful one.

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I am trying to guess the reason we have 2 x different soot level pids.("inferred open loop" and "inferred closed loop")

Maybe they relate to EGR valve being open/closed.(??)

This would make sense, as I expect pressure upline of DPF to be lower when EGR open, which seems to back up the readings.

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I will try not to worry about it too much, unless warning flags up again.

This probably would happen sooner rather than later, as it is now going to be subjected to many short 10 mile journeys for the next few weeks.

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I would still be interested in knowing other people's DPF_DP reading range if possible, for a car that exhibits no issues.

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Tks again for your interest....much appreciated.

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Steve
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
The terms open and closed loop in the context of the DPF differ in the followng way:

Open loop :

The differential pressure measurement is not used. An algorithm is used to determine the amount of soot that would normally have been produced given the various input parameters (engine running time, load etc).

Closed loop:

The differential pressure measurement is used to calculate the soot load.

If the open and closed loop values are widely different then that woud indicate a problem somewhere.

Your numbers are further apart than I would expect on my car.

DPF_LOAD is based on trhe differential pressure.

DPF_SOOT is calculated.
 
#6 ·
The terms open and closed loop in the context of the DPF differ in the followng way:

Open loop :

The differential pressure measurement is not used. An algorithm is used to determine the amount of soot that would normally have been produced given the various input parameters (engine running time, load etc).

Closed loop:

The differential pressure measurement is used to calculate the soot load.

If the open and closed loop values are widely different then that woud indicate a problem somewhere.

Your numbers are further apart than I would expect on my car.

DPF_LOAD is based on trhe differential pressure.

DPF_SOOT is calculated.
There is a third figure, at least on the 2.2 which is effectively a multiplier which seems to change regularly depending on your driving style. When this multiplier changes, the open loop soot load can be significantly different from the closed loop value.
 
#8 ·
I thought the target was to keep it to just one petal, One is obviously the best. :)
 
#9 ·
Soot Load % = how much accumulated soot (calculated by PCM) there is in the filter ( if > 80 % then it will regen)

DPF Load % = current load on the filter , motorway cruising with high EGR dutycycle will give you high % readings and calm driving with low egr dutycycle in like 30-50 mph will give low reading .
 
#10 ·
Thanks for your responses/info.

No further dash warnings so I suspect all relevant parts of the system are behaving themselves still.

Quick update regarding changes in readings over past week:-

DPF_SOOT Increase from 38% to 59%

DPF_LOAD decrease from 51 to 47% (virtually unchanged)

rgds
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
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Yes...P244c-00-6d is back again.

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Soot load 86%

DPF load 59%

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Took for short drive, high revs briefly to get feel for DPF diff pressure....max'd approx 14kPa.

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(attached show short snip of readings)

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Haynes manual gives no indication at all of fuse for vapoursiser glow plug.....if anyone has any idea, please advise.

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If the glow plug circuit had gone open, would there not be be a relevant fault code?

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I have cleared the DTC, just in case it inhibits further regeneration attempts.(although....a little concerned that, if there is a blockage, then the diesel pump may become stressed/fail, leading to further complications)

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I think I need to prop up front of car on stands soon, and try to remove vapouriser, to check if blocked.

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I have read that diesel feed pipe can be complicated to subsequently prime, although maybe I could clamp it, near the unit before disconnection.

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Car is needed daily, so suspect may need to put it into local decent garage, and get it diagnosed/rectified quickly.

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If you have read this far, thanks for your interest in my waffle!!

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S
 

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#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Nothing wrong with the readings. either the temp sensors are faulty, vapouriser fuel pump is toast or (more likely) the vapouriser needs replacing and the values reset.

Beware some cheap vapourisers cause issues with failing to reach regen temperatures. Temperature should sit at around 630C. I was surprised how consistent the temperature is during mixed driving - I only saw variations of 2 degrees when I was driving on Saturday.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for your response.

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"Nothing wrong with the readings" -

are you saying these are typical/not really concerning?

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"Temperature should sit at around 630C" -

Which specific temp parameter I should monitor on forscan?

Is this 630deg just during regen, or most of the time driving, once warmed up?

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Please advise.

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Rgds, Steve
 
#15 ·
You shouldn't get any problems with the diesel feed pipe either, I just disconnected it and reconnected to the new vapouriser and it was fine.

Your DPF readings look fine to me too.

I looked at CATEMP11 and CATEMP12, both went up to 630 Celsius during a regen.

This was the DPF readings when my car went in to limp mode when it couldn't regen. (Hence your readings look ok)
 

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#18 ·
3rd Dec

soot load was 93%

5th Dec, long 300 mile run over weekend

soot ld 66% <<<<<--------Looks like it may have done a successful regen

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I don't think I have seen the last of my P244C friend.

After all, it has never played up for past 6 years, when most of driving style has been similar. (mostly 10 mile non-motorway commute daily)

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Booked into local indy garage Thursday, to at least clean the vapouriser jet, and have glow plug and pump checked.

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Would really hep if the "DIST_REGEN" was available to view...can't find it.

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Tks for interest.

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Steve
 
#20 ·
Update:-

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Car into garage 2 days ago.

Furnished them with all history, and specific request to:-

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remove/inspect/attempt clean vapouriser if needed

put back in and attempt force regen.

if vapouriser FTB already clear, check glow plug/fuel pump/temp sensors etc.

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So, additional 26-mile round-trip to drop wife @ work with bike in car, dropped it off, 25min cycle home in heavy traffic.

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Garage called 3 hours later, advising they have tried a regen, it failed with same code, will be £515 to supply/fit new vapouriser, but they are not sure if it would fix problem!! (£279+Vat for item + 3 hours labour)

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Cycled back to garage, and found they had not even attempted to remove vapouriser, just pointlessly attempted a forced regen, and told me it had failed, as if it was news to me. (FFS!!!).

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Really angry.....ordered Lucas vapouriser for £130 with 2 year warranty.(arrived now, Lucas box, sealed bag with Lucas part number, so presume I have reasonable quality one.)

Also ordered one of these:-

Super Slim Thin 22mm Crows Foot Wrench Spanner for FORD TDCi Fuel Vaporiser DPF | eBay

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Car up on stands yesterday, just to get familiar with location/accessibility etc.

Squirted penetrating fluid over vapouriser nut while under there..

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Will attempt do it next week, removing cross-member 1st, and see how far I get, armed with blow torch.

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Will be really careful, and hope I don't mash up the thread/shear the nut. .

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Any pointers on getting it out would be appreciated.

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Thanks, Steve
 
#21 ·
 
#22 ·
Thanks for video link.

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Received my 22mm crows foot spanner....will do after Xmas when have time.

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Quick check just now, following 2 x 40 minute drives....mix 70/50mph + urban....soot dropped to 41%!!

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I'm going to swap it out anyway.

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Merry Xmas all, and tks again for all your help.
 
#23 ·
Success!!

Soaked it in penetrating fluid.

Breaker bar shifted it easily...bit of a non-event really.

Vapouriser hole really sooted up...only letting tiniest amount of air through. (diesel doesn't taste nice!!)

Glow was 1.1ohms,so good.

Applied dab Mintex Ceratec on re-assembly.

Probably won't bother force regen..just let it do its thing.

What a relief, as was all prepared with blow torch/extinguisher/garden hose and candle wax....latter in case penetrating fluid didn't work.

(you may think fire extinguisher a bit OTT, but changed track rod end on wife's car last summer.Lots of penetrating fluid on thread, mopped up lots of excess with blue roll.Lock nut needed some heat, you know the rest...nice inferno under engine!!!)

Hopefully anyone reading this will be as lucky as me.

Again, really grateful for all of your invaluable information/advice.

Rgds, Steve.
 
#25 ·
Good stuff :L

That looks worse than the one that came out of my car, but mine was blocked solid, couldn't blow through it at all.
 
#26 ·
That's good news Steve....My 2.2 gets mainly short town runs (especially since lockdown)....I have been using "wynns total system" treatment roughly twice a year & don't want to scud myself but so far "fingers crossed "....Our lockdown will continue to Easter(That I'm assured) & possibly further....With mot in April I will just have to Hope & Pray As You cannot travel further than 10 miles from home...Heavy fines imposed for breaking....They are really strict here but I suppose it's best safe than Sorry...As a footnote...Anybody relatively healthy getting 1st Astra Zeneca....Have a back up plan/time off work booked as it WILL knock your pan out for few days...Best Regards

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