2.0 TDCI DPF problems - P244C - Diesel Engines (Mk4 Mondeo) - TalkFord.com

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2.0 TDCI DPF problems - P244C

p244c dpf regenerate

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#1 ruaridhmaccallum

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 08:59 PM

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First post so please be gentle....sorry if this is going over old ground but I've done a fair bit of homework and only the same few articles keep coming up. Just posting out of desperation really in case there's someone with a bit of deeper knowledge out there.

 

I just bought a Sept. 2010 Mondeo 2.0 TDCI 115 Zetec with 100K on the clock. Really nice car. On the way home the MIL comes on, and eventually goes into limp mode. Did a bit of research, bought an ELM-327 cable and downloaded Forscan. Codes showed that DPF was choked. Tried a static regenerate but it wouldn't let me (unspecified fail). Reset the soot levels to zero then kicked off the static regen (not sure you're supposed to do this but took relevant safety precautions) which worked. Was then able to clear all codes and car went fine for a day or so, but soot levels quickly built up again and same thing happened.

 

Oh well, I thought, not the end of the world, from all I'd read the DPF is only supposed to last 80k miles or so, so that's most likely the problem. Sourced a new one for £509 and the company that sold me the car contributed £200 towards that (the amount they reckoned they could get the existing one "cleaned" for) which I thought was pretty fair. Fitted the new unit cleared all the codes and re-set the values and the car went beautifully - definitely up on power than with the old DPF.

 

Too good to last though:- yesterday the engine malfunction 'information' light came on (not the actual MIL and no forced limited power). Code was P244C 'Catalyst temperature too low for DPF regeneration bank 1'. Even though the car has only done about 200 miles since I fitted the new DPF, the soot loading values were up over 100%. I cleared the code and today my wife said there was a burning smell when she got to work (good) and this evening one of the soot values was down to 87%, so it looked like it must be trying to regen. I took it for a run for about 20 mins keeping revs near 3000 but the soot level crept up and eventually P244C came up again.

 

I brought up the catalyst temperature senders on the live data, they were about 200 at idle. I found that I could get them to a higher temperature by giving plenty of throttle in 4th rather than just keeping revs high in 3rd, so the were over 300 sometimes but not easy to keep it that high for long (no motorway nearby). The soot levels went down a little at one stage but eventually seemed pretty stubborn at about 110%. I brought the car home and tried a static regen which seemed to be working for about 10 mins but then it ended saying it had been unsuccessful, and the P244C came back. I now also have P246B 'vehicle conditions incorrect for DPF regeneration' which I think means the soot levels are now too high. I could clear this by re-setting the soot levels but I didn't want to do this on the new DPF, and I've reached the limit of what I can find out by searching.

 

So... if you've read this far and have half a clue what I'm on about, maybe, just maybe, you might be able to answer these questions:

 

1) At what soot loading value should the system try to kick off a regen? And why are there 2 different values? I've read some places that once over 95% that's the end of the DPF, which is going to be really painful if true.

 

2) Are the temperature sensors prone to failure? On the live data they seem to be behaving normally; with this kind of sensor I'd expect it to either work or not, it would be strange to go out of range.

 

3) Could a sticking EGR valve be causing the problem? I understand it's supposed to close during regen, if it stays open the temperature may not be able to get high enough?

 

4) Is the differential pressure sensor likely to be faulty? And what value should I expect to see on it when driving? It sits at 1kpa when idling but does seem to go up to quite high numbers when driving. I see lots of them listed for sale which makes me think they might be a failure point? If it was reading high it would presumably push the soot values up too quickly?

 

Well, clutching at straws as you can see, and I'll be really grateful to anyone with a bit of knowledge. I'm really trying to avoid having to take it to a main dealer because apart from the distance involved that will totally ruin my mission to get the youngest car possible at the lowest price, where ex-lease Mondeos are unbeatable. I was vaguely aware of DPFs but if I'd realised all the problems with them I'd have bought a petrol one....

 

Thanks in advance.


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#2 Mazo

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 08:20 AM

What PID and formula are you using to calculate soot load?



#3 ruaridhmaccallum

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 08:37 AM

Thanks for the reply. Forgive my ignorance - up until 2 weeks ago I had only minimal knowledge of OBD II and only knew of the existence of Diesel Particulate Filters from reading the handbook of my new Isuzu work truck, I didn't even know they had become mainstream on diesel cars this past 5 years or so. I do have a fairly strong mechanical / electrical background though hence why I have delved into this myself.

So....what is the PID? And how do I change the formula? I am using the latest version of Forscan which comes up with only one vehicle profile when connected to the Mondeo, but it looks like the right one.

Any chance you can elaborate on what you mean?

Cheers,

Ruaridh.



#4 Mazo

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 07:02 PM

Thanks for the reply. Forgive my ignorance - up until 2 weeks ago I had only minimal knowledge of OBD II and only knew of the existence of Diesel Particulate Filters from reading the handbook of my new Isuzu work truck, I didn't even know they had become mainstream on diesel cars this past 5 years or so. I do have a fairly strong mechanical / electrical background though hence why I have delved into this myself.

So....what is the PID? And how do I change the formula? I am using the latest version of Forscan which comes up with only one vehicle profile when connected to the Mondeo, but it looks like the right one.

Any chance you can elaborate on what you mean?

Cheers,

Ruaridh.

 

Ah, you can't actually see that data from Forscan (easily at least). Just got to trust the developers got it right. My 08 doesn't even show DPF soot load with Forscan.



#5 Pichacker

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 08:13 PM

Right.... Lets add another variable to your equations :)

 

Since your vehicle is a 2010 I will assume that it will be a DW10C. The difference on this vehicle is that it will be fitted with a Vapouriser unit in the exhaust downpipe just after the turbo and before the flexible joint.

 

The purpose of this is to post inject Diesel into the hot exhaust gasses and get the DPF lit off. The earlier DW10B relied solely on post injection into the cylinder which diluted the engine oil.

 

The Vapouriser unit is fed with a supply of Diesel from a metering pump that starts off at about 4hz and then ramps up in speed as the regeneration starts. Inside the Vapouriser is a small glow plug which is pulse controlled by the ECU along with the metering pump..... So far so good?

 

What goes wrong? Well the Vapouriser is in a stream of hot exhaust gasses and as a result eventually gets blocked. It cannot then get the regeneration going and then the DPF soots up. Depending upon the software in your ECU it may allow regenerations up to 300%.

 

What is an easy test to see if the Vapouriser is blocked? If you look up at the unit you'll see the Diesel supply pipe. Disconnect this from the Vapouriser and then connect a "MittyVac" to the Vapouriser. If you can pull any appreciative amount of Vacuum on the gauge then you have a blockage. This test is very subjective and needs to be done with a feel for you tools.

 

The Vapouriser can be a swine to get out.

 

Also the fuse that feeds the Vapouriser is known to randomly fail. This will set a fault code in the ECU. The fuse is located in the fuse box in the engine bay towards the front of the car.

 

Check list...

 

1) Pipes to DPF from the pressure sensor. Check for splits, are the on the correct way round?

2) Fuse feeding the Vapouriser glow plug.

3) Vapouriser primed ok?

4) Vapouriser blocked?

5) Engine cooling fan working ok?

6) EGR system - Least likely of all.

 

 

Even the main dealers overlook the importance of this unit..... :(


Edited by Pichacker, 19 September 2014 - 08:15 PM.


#6 ruaridhmaccallum

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 11:08 AM

That's brilliant, thanks.

I was just away to strip the EGR valve but I'll look into this vaporiser question instead.

I had seen the service bulletin (below) on here but I couldn't really tell if my car had one or not...other posts relating to Mondeos seemed to suggest it wouldn't have.

It definitely is the later one though because I had to buy the later-type DPF. There is a funny-looking thing with (what I now realise is probably) a fuel pipe onto it up on the catalyst unit after the turbo, so I'm guessing this is the vaporiser.

Of course mine isn't showing code P269F so perhaps the fuse isn't blown but a blocked vaporiser as you describe would presumably cause the cat to not get hot enough and therefore the P244C.

I'll report back, thanks again for the clear information.

BTW will there be DW10C written on the car anywhere?

Cheers,

Ruaridh.

 

 

11/9/10 Engine malfunction warning lamp illuminated on the instrument cluster; Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P269F present

63/2010 Should a customer express concern about the engine malfunction warning lamp illuminated on the instrument cluster, the probable cause is a blown fuse due to fuel vaporizer component internal short circuit caused by a fuel vaporizer overheating. The overheating is a result of a lack of fuel in the fuel vaporizer fuel line ahead of first Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) regeneration.

Furthermore Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P269F - Exhaust Aftertreatment Glow Plug Circuit/Open - is stored in the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

To rectify this concern, a new fuel vaporizer system should be installed in reference to the instructions detailed in this bulletin.

For markets where FordEtis IDS is used, connect FordEtis IDS and select the appropriate symptoms from the concern descriptions above. Follow the FordEtis IDS instructions to rectify this concern and send any related diagnostic feedback session files. Failure to follow these instructions will affect any associated warranty claim submission. For markets where FordEtis IDS is not available, rectify this concern by following the attached service repair instruction.          



#7 Pichacker

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 11:49 AM

If you look onto ETis and it says it's a stage 5 emissions then it is most likely a DW10C.



#8 Pichacker

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 02:22 PM

Just for interest, I know this is for a DW10B, but here's a graph of the data from my car. The last regen was only 273 miles ago so the initial soot loading wasn't too high. It shows the actions during a regeneration where the pre DPF exhaust gas temperature is modulated to keep the post DPF at about 600 degrees. Also shows the warm up and cool down processes.

 

This graph was taken using an ELM327 clone. (V1.5 which doesn't really exist)

 

All values are relative to 100 on the graph.

 

ECT 0 to 100

EGTs 0 to 1000

Soot load 0 to 1000

RPM 0 to 10,000

Attached Thumbnails

  • DPF Results.jpg

Edited by Pichacker, 20 September 2014 - 02:29 PM.


#9 ruaridhmaccallum

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:34 PM

Wow that's really interesting, thanks.

 

OK, here's the little blighter. It was indeed a bit tricky to get out but luckily I have access to a ramp.

 

20140920_145935.jpg

 

First off, the fuses are all OK. The fuel is fed in via a small pump very like an Eberspacher (night heater) one. I doubt if it will have failed, especially without blowing a fuse.

 

The vaporiser itself could well be blocked though. I don't have a vacuum tester but from 'manual' (!) methods it did seem to hold vacuum. I spent a while trying to clean it with thinners and an airline, and eventually got it where air would definitely pass through it, albeit with a fair restriction.

 

So I refitted and took the car for a drive. To start with the temperatures were still down around 200 - 240. But after a while when the soot values built up I suddenly noticed they were up around 480. I tried to keep the revs / load (despite caravans!) on and they were creeping over 500 for a while so it looked like it was trying to regen. However after a while the light came on again and when I got back to the shed both codes were up (temp too low and conditions not right for regen).

 

I tried a static regen which ran for the full 25 mins (I can't monitor the temps while that's running I don't think) but ended saying it had been unsuccessful if P246B was still there, however it wasn't so I thought it might have worked.

 

However on the way home the behaviour was the same - temps going up to about 480 as if it was trying to regen but then eventually failing with the same 2 codes.

 

From your graph it looks like the vaporiser might be letting a bit of fuel through, i.e. enough to get it up to 480 or so, but not enough to make it regen properly? Certainly it's a long way off the 600 that yours was at. I guess the next thing is to fit a new vaporiser. I suppose maybe one of the temperature probes could be faulty and not reading properly at the higher numbers but something tells me that's not the problem. It just doesn't feel like a regen has ever happened properly, because the soot values don't seem to go down.

 

Hopefully the vaporiser won't cost a fortune; I'll see if I can get a new one in there ASAP and report back.

 

BTW should there be a log in there somewhere of when it last performed a successful regen? If so should I be able to access it via Forscan? Admittedly I haven't looked very hard for this....

 

Cheers,

Ruaridh.

 

 



#10 ruaridhmaccallum

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:56 PM

Hmm....not so easy to find. Of course "fuel vaporizer" on Google brings up heaps of pages about implausible systems for increasing fuel economy on petrol cars.

I guess I'll have to go to a Ford dealer with the VIN, unless anyone can suggest a good online Ford parts supplier?

Cheers,

Ruaridh.







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